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rpmorrell wrote:

rpmorrell:

I notice the Bike Point site says that the DN-01 is shaft drive & wet clutch, & I wonder if it's neither?

Different analysts are going to use some mechanical terms incorrectly.  In the write up by motoaus (http://motoaus.com/road/road-bike-features-and-reviews/honda-dn-01.html) the DN-01 is said to have "no clutch!", but a "* Switch-selectable mechanical Neutral for easier control when at stop."  Scooter issue 20 mentions a "centrifugal governor" which is derived from "the original centrifugal clutch found in its ATV incarnation".  As to whether it does actually feature a Shaft Drive - remember that Honda shares a lot of components between different, but similar, models. The motor is common with the Deuville & Transalp.  Honda's VT750C1 Shadow shares its final drive (at least the outer casing) with the Deuville.  Have a close look at the Deuville final drive . . . an unused mounting point that the Shadow left shockie uses, but which isn't needed by the Deuville. It appears, from final clarity, that you'd have to remove that moulded cover from the single-sided arm.

As I understand it, the "hydraulics" are confined to the interior of their HFT auto trannie, which is scaled down ((lighter)) from the version used in one of their quad bikes.  Oh, there is one other system using hydraulics --- the 'linked brakes'.

If you have questions on 'linked brakes' and their effect on "cornering, (and) on loose surfaces" . . . why not do some reading on road tests where a two wheeler has this feature?  Usually they say that initial application of the 'shared' pedal or lever applies the rear brake first, with front coming in with harder application. Linked 'hydraulic' brakes first appeared on triple disk Moto Guzzis in the seventies.  Purely mechanical linked brakes go back decades earlier.

This is the Arqin V3 . . . only 250cc, less sophisticated than Honda's DN-01, but an auto cruiser all the same . . . it can mount a luggage rack & top case . . . its 90kg lighter, and its $10,000 cheaper!

vortexau:

its 90kg lighter, and its $10,000 cheaper!

A Lada Niva is heaps lighter & cheaper than a Toyota Landcruiser too..

Sorry to Arqin but what were they thinking???

Scooter HQ:

Sorry to Arqin but what were they thinking???

They were thinking "It has to be shiny.  Very, very shiny".

Thanks Vortexau for your in-depth insight. 

I'm a bit old skool over the braking thing.   

I actually liked the V3 when I saw it at the bike show in Brissy, last year.  The sales guy referred to it as a scooterbike.  Having one of those cruise around the circuit as the race organiser's official course vehicle when racing the Le Minz was a welcome distraction with it's in-built mp3 player (with usb port) blaring through the balmy night on the Gold Coast Parklands Circuit.

Rob 

rpmorrell:

I notice the Bike Point site says that the DN-01 is shaft drive & wet clutch, & I wonder if it's neither? 

Def shaft drive:

Not sure about the clutch though. From Honda's release press pack, 'A transmission system with a wide range of functions in a single unit, the HFT is a compact and highly efficient infinitely variable transmission system encompassing functions for starting, power transmission and shifting, all on a single shaft. The basic configuration of the system consists of an oil pump for converting engine power into hydraulic pressure, and an oil motor for converting the hydraulic pressure back into power for output. Both are made up of multiple pistons, a distributor valve and a swash plate for piston operation, while the cylinders are integrated into the output shaft, forming the characteristic structure of the HFT.

The HFT also features the world’s first lockup mechanism for an infinitely variable hydraulic mechanical transmission. When cruising, this lockup mechanism works to minimize transmission efficiency losses, contributing to improved fuel economy. '

The HFT unit is very small, seeing it in the metal is an eye-opener...

As for what a DN-01 is, as well as the explanation above, you can listen to Fukui-san's expression of the new market segment here: Honda 2005 DN-01 Release (with the back of my head in the last few frames). Not everything fits with the old view of the world, and with the DN-01 Honda is trying something new. See ya! Neko.

Scooter HQ:

A Lada Niva is heaps lighter & cheaper than a Toyota Landcruiser too..

Sorry to Arqin but . . . .

I'm not comparing the products of Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Co.,Ltd to those of AvtoVAZ.  I'm aware of the poor reputation of autos branded with the Lada nameplate.  But China can supply export markets with the level of quality desired.  Meaning, YOU pay for low quality -- you receive low quality, and if YOU pay for high quality -- you receive high quality!

The Qingqi trademark has been in existence for 40 years, and Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Company Limited has current annual output of about 1,000,000 motorcycles and 1,500,00 engine units. It It has also acquitted the TUV Certificate of Germany, DOT Certificate of America, EC certificate of Europe and certificates of Russian, Korean, and other origins. Qingqi became one of the first among the motorcycle companies of China to pass the ISO 9001 certificate in 1995. It also passed ISO 9001(2000 version), and 3C certificate in August of 2003. The production test standards of Jinan Qingqi are under the reference of SES, SIS and SOS standard of SUZUKI.

The visual aspect of their current product range has a high level of Chinese taste, and a lower western appeal . . . . just as Japanese motorcycles in the early sixties reflected mainly Japanese taste. This is likely to change over time.

As I recall, the biggest Japanese motorcycle engine size circ- 1960, was 305cc, power was transmitted to the rear wheel by a fully-enclosed chain,  and front suspension was usually leading-link:

(http://www.classichondarestoration.com/images/ken/right_ca77.jpg)

 of course there is always the aprilia mana 850. a scooter in  a motorbike

vortexau:

Scooter HQ:

A Lada Niva is heaps lighter & cheaper than a Toyota Landcruiser too..

Sorry to Arqin but . . . .

I'm not comparing the products of Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Co.,Ltd to those of AvtoVAZ.  I'm aware of the poor reputation of autos branded with the Lada nameplate.  But China can supply export markets with the level of quality desired.  Meaning, YOU pay for low quality -- you receive low quality, and if YOU pay for high quality -- you receive high quality!

The Qingqi trademark has been in existence for 40 years, and Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Company Limited has current annual output of about 1,000,000 motorcycles and 1,500,00 engine units. It It has also acquitted the TUV Certificate of Germany, DOT Certificate of America, EC certificate of Europe and certificates of Russian, Korean, and other origins. Qingqi became one of the first among the motorcycle companies of China to pass the ISO 9001 certificate in 1995. It also passed ISO 9001(2000 version), and 3C certificate in August of 2003. The production test standards of Jinan Qingqi are under the reference of SES, SIS and SOS standard of SUZUKI.

The visual aspect of their current product range has a high level of Chinese taste, and a lower western appeal . . . . just as Japanese motorcycles in the early sixties reflected mainly Japanese taste. This is likely to change over time.

As I recall, the biggest Japanese motorcycle engine size circ- 1960, was 305cc, power was transmitted to the rear wheel by a fully-enclosed chain,  and front suspension was usually leading-link:

(http://www.classichondarestoration.com/images/ken/right_ca77.jpg)

You're bang on the nail.  Place of manufacture is no longer a sole indicator of quality.  There is good stuff from China and total crap.  Ditto Taiwan, Japan and Europe.  Brand is probably a far better indicator of quality than country of manufacture.  The Groff article on the subject in Two Wheels recently was bang on the nail.  I just need to work out how to attach it...   

vortexau:

But China can supply export markets with the level of quality desired

I'm only talking scooters here, there are a few fields the Chinese lead the world in, Scooters aren't one. The only Chinese built scooter I would personally own would come out of the Zongshen Piaggio Foshan Factory. But they would all be designed in Europe & the factory making it is also has a major European influence or major shareholder.

vortexau:

The visual aspect of their current product range has a high level of Chinese taste, and a lower western appeal . . . . just as Japanese motorcycles in the early sixties reflected mainly Japanese taste

People always come to the Japanese example, there is a huge difference not just culturally either. The big four Japanese companies looked at the Europeans & wanted to build a better bike cheaper & they did. The arrogance of the European manufacturers was part of their downfall as was labour etc etc.. The existing Euro players were just asking for a hammering. I think every player learnt from that it is a different climate now.

vortexau:

The Qingqi trademark has been in existence for 40 years, and Jinan Qingqi Motorcycle Company Limited has current annual output of about 1,000,000 motorcycles and 1,500,00 engine units. It It has also acquitted the TUV Certificate of Germany, DOT Certificate of America, EC certificate of Europe and certificates of Russian, Korean, and other origins. Qingqi became one of the first among the motorcycle companies of China to pass the ISO 9001 certificate in 1995. It also passed ISO 9001(2000 version), and 3C certificate in August of 2003. The production test standards of Jinan Qingqi are under the reference of SES, SIS and SOS standard of SUZUKI.

So what, every brochure from one of these manufacturers sprouts about compliance & standards, they also like to throw in a Japanese name. Have a read of what has just started to happen in the US, fortunately our ADR standards catch them before they get in. There are plenty of Chinese scooters meeting many standards that have failed our ADR. Where is the Arqin Sahara?

http://www.scootercommunity.com.au/blogs/the_scooter_scoop/archive/2008/11/12/penndot-puts-the-brakes-on-chinese-scoots.aspx

 lol.. its an auto motorbike.. still change gears on it...

BenLang:

 lol.. its an auto motorbike.. still change gears on it...

If you choose to, as you can in an automobile with 1, 2, D, R!

http://www.twowheelsblog.com/post/152/test-honda-dn-01-a-window-to-the-future